From TSW and CPS at Her Door to True Healing: A Mother’s Fight Against Medical Suppression | 164

This episode is one of the most heart-wrenching and important conversations I’ve ever recorded. Our guest Paige bravely shares her lifelong battle with eczema, her experience with topical steroid withdrawal, and the unimaginable trauma of having CPS show up at her door - just two days before her due date with her second child because she didn’t want to follow a dermatologist’s orders of using steroids on her son. 

What unfolds is not only a story of a mother’s deep intuition and unwavering advocacy, but also a powerful example of how our medical system fails to ask why and instead pressures families into cycles of suppression. Paige’s story will shake you, open your eyes, and most of all, give you hope. If you’ve ever doubted your gut, felt dismissed by doctors, or questioned everything in pursuit of your or your child’s healing - this one is for you.

Juniper (00:01)

Welcome to the podcast page. We are all really honored to have you here and we are in for, I know a story that is going to have all of us probably crying and our hearts pulled out and what you have experienced is unfathomable. And I just want to thank you upfront for being vulnerable and sharing your story and raising awareness because this is happening all the time and it's not okay. it's brave mamas like you speaking up that help empower everyone else and whether that's, you know, someone feeling validated because they've experienced the exact same thing or having a bit of awareness before they find themselves in this situation. can we just start? by getting to know you as a woman first, as a mama, and then I wanna hear as much of your story as you feel called to share. And as we were preparing for this, I kind of shared with you that for most of the guests that come on the show, this is really their first time putting their story altogether and processing it in a public way. And there's something... about that that is incredibly healing and transforming for mama's healing journey. So will you please talk about you and who you are?

Paige (01:39)

Yes, thank you for having me. ⁓ So I am Paige and I was raised in South Dakota ⁓ on a ranch my whole life and I am in a very rural area, so very small town, know, everything. I have two siblings. I'm the youngest ⁓ and I would say especially just my eczema journey starts when I was very young and it starts really just with my mom. ⁓ She had me as a c-section and I've learned so much now looking back I'm like ⁓ this makes sense this makes sense this makes sense for ⁓ why I have so many health you know issues and it's no you know it's nothing on her it's just the medical system it's just kind of how it worked and I just happen to be one of the lucky ones. 

Juniper (02:36)

It's incredible when we step into this role of healing our child how much we're able to connect the dots for ourselves, right?

Paige (02:43)

Yes, yeah, and I will say like, it's a whole different experience watching my child go through it compared to how I went through it. Like I am so much more honed in, you know, on everything and nothing is more important to me than healing him and in order to do that, I have to heal me too. yeah, so I've just noticed with stories my mom has told me about me being a baby because I got eczema at five months old, pretty severe. And ⁓ looking back now, kind of what she told me, she got pretty sick with me while she was pregnant and she was on lot of antibiotics. ⁓ And she couldn't ever breastfeed any of us. ⁓ So we were all breastfed, or we weren't breastfed babies. ⁓ And she had all C-sections. So there's just kind of all these little snippets ⁓ of our story that makes sense for us. My sister has Crohn's disease and I don't know if that is also, but we all kind of have autoimmune issues. ⁓ yeah, five months I broke out. My mom said she gave me strawberry banana yogurt and after that I just blew up and she didn't know why.

Juniper (03:47)

Yes, all connected.

Paige (04:05)

And the first thing the doctor said was, your baby has eczema, you need to be on steroids. So I started on steroids at five months old. ⁓ And it was just a pretty uphill battle since then. My mom, like me, I feel like in her own way was doing the best she could with the resources she had. Because I mean, we have so many resources now with the internet and she didn't have all that. She had doctors, you know.

I'm gonna go to the doctors and ⁓ so every few years I would get a flare, the steroids weren't strong enough or whatnot. so then they would up the dosage, she would take me to the next doctor and they would up the dose and do allergy testing with this one. ⁓ They were all a little bit different and I would be put on oral steroids like prednisone very young and the flares after that were... crazy. ⁓ Yeah, so from a very young age, I was on this cycle of steroids from dermatologist after dermatologist after dermatologist. At the age of 15, I had been I started some really bad flares. ⁓ And I couldn't be in basketball. And I was really sad about that. And prom was coming up and I was like, Mom, I don't know what to do. Like, And ⁓ so we went to the Children's Hospital in Denver for eczema and asthma. And that was a week stay, a week kind of protocol where they have all these doctors working with you. And again, it was, you know, wet wraps. There were other things that they would have me do, but it was also just the steroids, the steroids, the steroids. And ⁓ that would work for a little bit. ⁓ And then... I got to the point ⁓ where after I graduated, like that had worked probably until I graduated and then I went to college at Black Hills in South Dakota and it was all pine trees and my body didn't know what to do with all that so apparently I was allergic and ⁓ then I had a really bad flare and I ended up going on Dupixent and that didn't really help. I got a lot of eye problems from that, ⁓ side effects. And then we ended up going to Rochester. That's an injection. Yup.

Juniper (06:33)

Is that an oral or is that injection? Okay.

Is it more of an antibiotic or is it also steroid

Paige (06:43)

It's not actually considered a steroid. I think it's called a Jack inhibitor, if I'm saying that correctly. ⁓ And it's just another suppressant on the, you know, I'm not sure exactly the scientific, you know, how it all works, but a lot of people do see benefits from it, but it's no different as in at bare minimum, you have to be on it for six months. yeah, so, it's, ⁓ I think it's an injection every week or every...

Paige (07:12)

two weeks, I can't remember. And so yeah, I was on that. And it really didn't, I mean, helped a little bit, but nothing where it was too crazy. And then I ended up going to Rochester Mayo in 2020 during COVID. And it was just kind of the same thing, they gave me an allergy shot. And it was good for a little bit.

And then I, in 2022, I got married to my husband and I saw something, I think maybe on TikTok where you shouldn't be on steroids when you're pregnant and we wanted to have a baby. And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna get off these steroids and then withdrawals started happening. And that's really where I was like, whoa, like this is intense.

I started researching TSW, ⁓ topical steroid withdrawal, and it was nothing like I'd ever experienced with eczema. It was the worst thing I had to go through ever, besides watching my child go through eczema. That was probably the worst thing I've ever been through. ⁓ I had to, I'd just gotten married to my husband. We'd been together since eighth grade, and then...

Yeah, we've been here for a long time. We just had our tenure just like of being together and we're so excited. We got married. He's a rancher just a few hours away from where I was from. And yeah, we got married and we're like, well, we, know, soon we're to want to have a baby. So I decided to get off steroids and like our whole world just turned upside down. I, my husband really couldn't take care of me. He was working full time on the ranch and I was just full body, my body was just in so much distress. The skin was just peeling off my body and I was unrecognizable. My hair was falling out. I was just in bed all day and your skin is so weepy with TSW. Every time I woke up, when I could sleep, I was just stuck to the sheets or my pillow and it was awful. And I ended up moving in with my mom in North Dakota for, ⁓ my gosh, I don't know, maybe four months, I think. And, you know, didn't get to, we didn't get to go on a honeymoon or any of that. Like we just had to be separate. So that was probably the hardest thing for our marriage really, just not being together. And yeah, so.

Juniper (10:00)

Well, and I have a question. So leading up to this point, I always just have to ask this question because it baffles my mind so greatly that of all of the, you probably can't even quantify the number of dermatologists and specialists and doctors that you have seen over your lifetime. And not a single one pauses to say, is there something going on deeper? Why is this happening inside your body? Just treat the symptom.

Paige (10:36)

Yep, yep. And I would say the deepest that they've ever went was allergy testing. But it wasn't, it was like, okay, avoid these allergies, but just take some Zyrtec and you'll be fine, pretty much is the max, you know, that they really did for us. And my mom, she did take me, you know, growing up to a few naturopathic, and it was always, ⁓ cut out gluten, cut out dairy, which is probably good for me, but it wasn't.

Juniper (10:50)

Right.

Paige (11:04)

the know the sole issue is my gut like microbiome from the beginning like how important it is to have a vaginal birth is just super important and again no you know my mom could you know she can't help that yeah so from the beginning it was just not going to be great and for years I all I did was suppress and suppress and suppress and of course you know I was going to have a bad flare after bad flare and And being that young, starting off with steroids, it was like, that was my comfort blanket. they were like, you know, do this one for your face, do this one for your body. This one's a stronger dosage. You just don't want to, you know, have it super strong in your face. But when I had a flare up and I'm a teenager and I want to go out with my friends, I'm going to put the stronger one on my face because I want to look good, you know, that week or whatever, you know, and So being that young and starting off with steroids, I had no idea the repercussions that were going to lead to that. had no clue. look and if dermatologist after dermatologist is saying you have to go on steroids, then they're like, ⁓ you know, that's apparently the thing. Yeah, that's apparently the only thing that we have. So, yeah, you know.

Juniper (12:17)

Yeah. Well, and hearing your story is so impactful for so many people because, you know, a mama today who is listening to this and maybe she has to have a C-section or she's recently had one or even in the last decade, learning from this conversation, there's so much that we now know that we can do to help change the trajectory of our children's health, no matter how were born, but it's the lack of awareness and the lack of The lack of education that unfortunately doctors and dermatologists and the specialists that we are all leaning on have, and it's not their fault either. They want to help, right? But the education that they are given is really lacking this foundational component of our microbiome that, mean, hearing your story makes me wanna just cry because...

Paige (13:11)

Okay. Yeah.

Juniper (13:28)

had this information just been given to your mom, your whole life would have been different. And this is really the first, you're the first person that I've had this conversation with where, you know, I talk a lot to moms with children that have eczema, but not someone who has experienced this their entire life.

Paige (13:53)

Yeah, and I will say like, I am a very like faithful person, I grew up Catholic and my faith has been everything to me. And that is really what got me through, especially with the hard TSW days. I was like, okay, like this is my cross to bear, like so be it. if this is, sorry, like if this is what like I was called to do then like that's gonna be my story. And don't get me wrong, I definitely had days where I was just like mad at God and ⁓ for having to go through this and like why, the why of having to go through it, but I would say like nothing was harder or nothing threw me for a loop in my faith more than having to watch my son go through it. Because watching like, sorry, a baby or a little kid go through it is just, there's nothing harder as a mom. And so yeah, I would say that was definitely, no one prepared me for that. Just like my faith was truly shaken. I was, I was very angry. I'm having to watch this little boy that I love so much and thinking it was, you know, my fault and not healing my body enough before I was pregnant. And he unfortunately was an emergency C-section. So I tried so hard my whole pregnancy to have a natural birth and it just didn't work out that way. So there was all these other things that I was just like, God I'm trying so hard to do this the right way so that he doesn't have to go through what I went through growing up, know, always wearing long sleeves in the summertime, ⁓ like avoiding going out and doing things that other kids got to do. ⁓ So yeah, I would just say that was definitely... something I was very unprepared for. And with the medical system, just Western medicine in general is just, it's so hard. And me pleading with doctors saying like, there's something deeper here. And them saying, no, it's, you know, the skin microbiome. Some kids are just, you know, born with it and they'll grow out of it. You got to give them this two weeks of steroids or one month of steroids, this dosage of steroids. And I was just like seeing my whole life flash before me going through, like I was just like, wow, this is what my mom had to go through with me, you know, and.

Juniper (16:45)

Okay, before we keep going with your son, I want to fill this gap in time between you're living at your mom's house for four months because your TSW is so bad. What happens after that?

Paige (16:56)

Mm-hmm. So I was doing a six month protocol with ⁓ a functional medicine doctor who focuses on eczema and TSW. So pretty much, I would say through the most of that protocol, I was living at my mom's and it was a lot of colonics, some cleanses, know, very strict diet. And I'd lost probably, I think I'd lost 45 pounds ⁓ of just being on this diet and basically cleaning my whole system out of processed foods. I didn't eat great before. When I was on steroids, I just ate like normal Americans do. And then I totally shifted. It was a lot of chicken and salmon and all that sort of thing. And so I was going... to Billings, Montana to do colonics because there's no place around here.

Juniper (17:52)

Wow. What's the six hours from where I live? Yeah.

Paige (17:56)

Is it? Yeah. And so, yeah, we were in Montana quite a bit. ⁓ And so, yeah, I was just kind of jumping around and slowly.

Juniper (18:03)

So is this the first time in your life? So I think you're 23 at this time, is that right? Okay. So the first time in 23 years that you're working with someone who's like, okay, we've got to heal your gut. We've got to heal your body from the inside.

Paige (18:11)

Yep. Yep, yep, absolutely. And I learned so much about the things I was doing that were just you know, there's a lot of moisture withdrawal, not taking too many showers and you know, that sort of thing, making sure your environment is extremely clean. you know, ⁓ fragrances and anything like that. And it was with TSW, you're sensitive to light, your body's super sensitive. I couldn't sleep at night. My circadian rhythm was totally off. And I pretty much slept during the day and was up at night for some reason. And you just, it's hard to like, your whole body has just flipped on its axis. Like my mom was like, go to bed at night, like get off your phone. I'm like, mom, I can't sleep. ⁓ my brain will not turn off like I'm wired at night and so yeah it was just a lot of relearning my whole body I would say. And so I was with my mom for about four months during the winter and then I slowly moved back and with my husband when it got to spring my skin had gotten a little bit better where I could manage it at least and we could still like see each other. And because I lived for about five hours away, was where my mom was. Yeah, so we probably saw each other once a month during that time. But and it was, I mean, after I moved in, it was like relearning each other too, because I didn't want him to touch me like, like, let alone look at me like, I didn't want anyone to touch me for at least, you know, six months. It was just I was so ⁓ I was so trapped in this body that I Yeah. So yeah, I moved back in.

Juniper (19:36)

⁓ my gosh.

Paige (20:04)

that summer my skin had gotten pretty decent and we're like, you know what? Let's let's try for a baby. It wasn't great. I would say I was at probably 80 % compared to like the worst I was probably about 80 % better on my own and so I was sticking with the protocols and everything and then we were like, well, let's try to get pregnant and our first try we got pregnant and My body loves being pregnant.

Juniper (20:37)

Well, I was just going to say that how incredible a woman's body is that you have just experienced the most amount of trauma a body can handle and you immediately got pregnant is incredible.

Paige (20:48)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I don't know if I would have gotten pregnant that fast if I hadn't healed so much of my body before that. And thank God I didn't have to learn TSW while I was pregnant. I'm glad that we decided, let's get off the steroids, see how you do, and then try to get pregnant instead of, I'll get off steroids when I get pregnant. my gosh, I couldn't imagine going through withdrawals during pregnancy. And I know a lot of women that have done that and

Juniper (21:01)

Yeah.

Paige (21:24)

my gosh, my heart goes out to them. So yeah, my hormones are something. They say for TSW and eczema, you're either gonna get worse or you're gonna get better. And thank God, mine was the, I love all these hormones going on in my body. I was like, I was on nothing. I didn't have to do anything. My skin was beautiful. was, yeah, it was crazy. yeah.

Juniper (21:49)

Wow. Okay, and so your pregnancy was beautiful.

Paige (21:55)

Great. Yeah, I had the most amazing, amazing pregnancy. ⁓ I got to be home with my husband. I'm an artist, I guess I didn't say that, but ⁓ I do a lot of art, like watercolor, oil painting and stuff, and that's kind of my business. And so I got to work on all these commissions while I was pregnant at home, and it was like honeymoon phase, like all over. It was great, yeah. So I loved being pregnant. ⁓ And I went, I tried so hard to have a natural birth and I went two weeks over my due date. ⁓ And this is in March and it was like nothing was happening at all. Like my, nothing, he wasn't dropping down. My cervix was hard as a rock. Like nothing was going to happen and they really don't recommend going past two weeks over. So I went in to get induced and It was a very, very, I tried my hardest not to do all the fentanyl and all the drugs and whatnot, but they had to break my water. And yeah, I tried for a long time without an epidural and I ended up getting one after I 20 hours of labor. And yeah, it was, I tried, And then I got one.

Juniper (23:20)

Well, and sounds like your body is going from like zero dilation to 10 in this mirror window of no medication. is so intense.

Paige (23:23)

Yes, and that's exactly what was happening. Yeah. Yeah, and ⁓ so I got the epidural and it was a really good epidural. I was really nervous that I wasn't gonna be able to feel myself push when I needed to push, but it was good. I could move my legs and stuff. ⁓ And then it was Easter weekend and so I could tell that the doctor didn't want to come in. That was kind of the vibes I was getting. They're like, I'm at home with my family, let me know when the baby is just about to come out, pretty much. And so.. The nurses are helping me push and his head is partially out. ⁓ And I pushed for three and a half hours and I just kept looking at the nurse like nothing, like his head was like, know, very, we could see the top of his head. And I was like, this isn't right. Like it's been three and a half hours. I pushed nonstop. The OB isn't coming in and they weren't giving me any reassurance. ⁓ And I was just like, I don't know what to do. And so they finally called the OBN and they're like, ⁓ it looks like when your baby dropped down, he was sunny side up and his head was coming out like this instead of like this. And I had pushed for so long that he started to get, you know, the cone. It was too risky to try to do forceps or anything. And so, or to reposition, like to go back up and try to reposition, it was too risky because he was already swollen. And so they said, you have to do him a c-section. So I went in, had a c-section, and by then all the drugs had wore off and I could feel them cutting. And so they had to put me out, so that was just more drugs, and that was pretty risky for the baby. They were like, well you can continue with this, feel everything, or we can put you out, but that can put babies into shock. And I was just so, I was just looking at my husband, I'm like, you have to make a choice, like I can't like make a choice right now after like a whole day of basically trying to get this baby out and or yeah day and a half and he's like he's just looking at the doctors I think and he's just like just put her out put her out it'll be okay just put her out and ⁓ so they put me out and then I got to meet him an hour later after I woke up and he was perfect most perfect baby not one time through all that did his heart rate go up or anything he was just he was so chill and yeah I was It was very traumatic, but he was so perfect after that. Like an hour later, I was like, I want 10 more of them. They're so cute. Like it was great. So, ⁓ yeah, that was the birth with June. sorry.

Juniper (26:07)

What was your recovery like? Because it's essentially like you had a vaginal birth and a C-section.

Paige (26:14)

They say that. They said it's called a double birth ⁓ where they had to push him back in me and then cut me open and take him out. so recovery was pretty intense and I still was like, I don't want to do a lot of drugs so I did a little bit of ibuprofen and that was pretty much all I let myself do. ⁓ I didn't want to do anything too crazy for pain management just because I had felt like I had already given him a million different things during that whole birth. ⁓ so I would say about two weeks, I was in bed a lot. Me and him, I mean, it was fine, lots of baby cuddles, but yeah, my husband was great through everything and ⁓ his family, we live on their ranch and they were all great and understanding. And yeah, it was a lot of bedtime, but. Yeah.

Juniper (27:13)

I'm just visualizing like pushing for three and a half hours. So intense on your body.

Paige (27:17)

Yeah. Yeah, and in hindsight, like after I was, I was kind of angry. was like, maybe after an hour pushing the OB should have came in and like,

Juniper (27:31)

No kidding. Or like, as soon as you asked

Paige (27:35)

Yeah, yeah. And it was a big hospital. was like, could someone come and see? Because if they had found out earlier that he was sunny side up and whatnot, they could have repositioned his head. And this could have been all avoidable, I think anyways. Because I actually just had a baby in May and I had a successful V-back. And looking at both pregnancies, like compared to each other, was like, ⁓ that's how it could have went, I guess.

Juniper (27:44)

Where exactly? Wow.

Paige (28:05)

Yeah.

Juniper (28:05)

Wow. So did your TSW flare after your son's birth?

Paige (28:12)

Yep. It was about two months, I think my hormones had to balance out a little bit, like all that had to leave my body, but I was breastfeeding, I was able to breastfeed, thank God. ⁓ yeah, so about two months after it got bad, and it was summertime, which is always not a great time for me with pollen and stuff. So I would say for a couple months, it wasn't great. ⁓ But it wasn't as bad as, it wasn't like start over again or anything, which I'm very thankful for. But I do know a lot of TSW people say that through breastfeeding, you still have quite a bit of hormones and that can be helpful. So yeah, I think that was helpful breastfeeding still. Yeah.

Juniper (29:00)

Wow, I was curious if the, like all that you went through with birth triggered your body. So it's incredible that you get to live on this hormone high, right?

Paige (29:07)

would, yeah. Yes, yeah. I'm like, that mean I need to go check out my hormones and that's my problem? I don't know. I'm still kind of diving into all that, but yeah.

Juniper (29:22)

Well, that's a really wise connection that you're making because every single part is connected. Your microbiome, your hormones, your even seasonal allergies. All of it is so intimately connected.

Paige (29:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

Juniper (29:42)

okay, so your postpartum, you get a flare but nothing like it was. And then how old, was your son when he developed eczema.

Paige (29:55)

Well, I need to add one snippet in there. ⁓ So it was about two months postpartum when I got my flare and I was flaring for about two months after that. And then we got pregnant again at four months postpartum. Yeah, so that's what I have to add in there. ⁓ Because then my skin got really good again. And I was like, and it was a total oops, you know, it was not planned whatsoever. So.

Juniper (29:59)

Okay. Yeah.

Paige (30:26)

Yeah, I have to add that little bit in there.

Juniper (30:27)

When did you get your cycle back after your son?

Paige (30:31)

freaking month after I had him. Yeah. Yeah. And I just got mine back with her too. Yeah. So I'm like, like, of course, I'm like, that should be criminal. I just got done bleeding from having these children and then I have to bleed. Yeah. So I get my neck really, really quick. And I've always had a very regular cycle. So which I'm grateful for. Yeah. Everything.

Juniper (30:35)

Really? Wow. which is incredible. Every time I have these conversations, beneath the symptoms, I am just in awe of how resilient and how strong, especially women and girls' bodies are.

Paige (31:13)

Yeah, yeah. And I'm thankful, like I never put myself on birth control and that sort of thing. And I've always tracked my cycle. And I feel like that is so like, looking back now, I'm like, thank God I wasn't put on birth control from the second I was, you know, turned a teenager like a lot of women are. That's a whole nother, right? But yeah.

Juniper (31:29)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we really amazed that that wasn't something that one of these many doctors told you to do because a lot like that's something that I do here really commonly with teenage girls experiencing even eczema is get on birth control. You were wise.

Paige (31:55)

they told me to. They did. Yes. I was like, And in my head I'm like, you know, that's only if I'm sleeping with my boyfriend and you know, whatever. And ⁓ we waited until marriage. I was like, no, I don't, there was no point for me to do it. So, and I knew so many women that they get one pimple on their face and they're like, birth control, birth control, or you got a heavy period birth control. And like, you know, it was just, yeah. It's just crazy.

Juniper (32:25)

Well, culturally, that's how we are conditioned to think, right? And as women, we are told to regulate ourselves and our hormones and our bodies. And that's what birth control is, I feel like given for so often is to regulate. And my gosh, this is a whole other topic that gets me so fired up because I am...

Paige (32:34)

Yes. ⁓ Yeah, me too.

Juniper (32:49)

For you, I am so grateful that you had the sense to reject that because birth control is so intensely disruptive to the microbiome too. And so I can't begin to fathom the repercussions of that for you.

Paige (33:01)

Yeah. Yeah, and it's just another like suppress the symptoms. It's like, forbid we look as to why we're getting that pimple or why we have a weird flow or why I have flare ups during this time of year or you know, it's like, why are we so scared of our body showing us these red flags? Like, and like those are there for a reason. Like eczema is in some ways a good thing because it's telling you, you know.

Juniper (33:23)

Mm-hmm.

Paige (33:35)

there's something deeper going on and I'm trying to express that to you and we're like, let me just pretend that didn't exist and put a series.

Juniper (33:43)

Well, I love that you say it like that. try to communicate that, but it's really hard. For somebody who's in the thick of eczema, it's really hard to hear. This is a really beautiful gift that you're being given right now, but it really is. is not everybody experiences eczema. A lot of people have symptoms that are not as noticeable or not as in your face screaming at you, help me, help me. There's a lot of other symptoms, behavioral issues, speech delays that are really big, but you can hide from those in a sense. Does that make sense? And not everybody in the world sees it and has their opinion and their ideas and their judgments.

Paige (34:21)

Yeah, they're not so visual. Yeah, like... And we go through that.

Juniper (34:33)

when you have a symptom that is screaming at you so loudly, it really is a beautiful gift. It's a beautiful gift that your body is giving you to say, please help me. And any symptom, whether it's period related or a pimple or whatever it is, it is your body asking you for help. And this is where our system is of the greatest disservice is it suppresses those symptoms and eventually our bodies develop a different way to try to communicate with us. so then you find so many people with so many symptoms stacked, you know, and poor three-year-old that is on steroids, tropical steroids, internal steroids, Miralax, all the allergy medications and their bodies just kind of start to shut down. Just like, you know, if you are communicating with someone and they're constantly not listening to you and just like shoving you down, you kind of stop trying to communicate with them.

Paige (35:42)

Yeah, absolutely.

Juniper (35:44)

Okay, so you're four months postpartum and pregnant and your TSW is doing amazing again. And now tell us about your son.

Paige (35:53)

Bye! ⁓ So we reached at night, he was nine months old around Christmas time. And after, you know, we saw everyone for the holidays, he got sick. He had gotten COVID and really bad ear infections at the same time. And so we went in and got him checked out. And that's what they told us. They tested him and he had no signs of eczema up to this point besides a little dry spots on his ankles. But that was really it. Like he had nothing. He was perfect baby. Yeah. And so we went in and he had gotten sick quite a bit. ⁓ Now looking back, you know, he got cold a little bit. He kept him a little bit longer than the average kid I had felt like. ⁓ Like I think two weeks after he was born, he got a bad eye infection and we had to put that eye cream ⁓ or ointment that prescribed antibiotic eye ointment. But besides that, he had been on no antibiotics or anything ⁓ up to that point. And we decided to put him on amoxicillin per our pediatrician's request. And I really didn't know the deep dive of antibiotics like I do now. ⁓ And we put him on that. And at the same time, I lost my milk supply ⁓ for breastfeeding, which I was thankful I could even breastfeed while I was pregnant because a lot of women can't. So I was honestly like, okay, I made it to nine months and I've been pregnant for, you know, half, you know, that time. ⁓ so I lost my supply at that same time as he had these antibiotics given to him. It was a 10 day dose. And I would say a week after that, we started seeing the patches on his cheek. ⁓ And then over the weeks, it just kind of got worse. It looked infected and it kind of stayed on his face and it slowly just spread through his body. And I just knew it was from the antibiotics. I knew right away that that was what, you know, was a tipping point for his body because he had been through so many, you know, drugs with birth. There was a C-section. He just kind of had the odds stacked against him and it just slowly kept building. And that was kind of the thing that tipped us over was the round of antibiotics. And ⁓ I knewI was terrified. didn't want to go to a dermatologist because I knew what I had went through with dermatologists not listening to me and I knew they were going to put me on steroids and meanwhile I'm going through withdrawals, you know, and I'm like I have seen so many stories of little babies, of little kids going on it for a month and going through withdrawals. I'm like there's nothing worse to me than eczema for a kid but let alone TSW for a kid because it's hard for me to navigate.

Juniper (38:52)

Well, I need to experience it, that the steroids didn't heal your eczema.

Paige (38:57)

Yep. And so I decided to go through my lady that helped me with that six months of protocol and I decided to go through her and she's out of California so it's not an in-person thing. And we just started with a lot of testing, taking foods out, that sort of thing, but really nothing was doing, like it just kept getting worse. Nothing was helping. And we slowly did this deep dive in. ⁓ for our son, decided to do deeper testing because he started to get super tired. His hands and feet were freezing and it was hard to get him to eat. And so I knew there was other things going on besides just eczema. I knew that everyone could see the eczema, but we saw these other symptoms. And so we decided to go into my pediatrician. And this is the last time we had seen her is when she gave us a round of antibiotics. And so I think it was January when we got the antibiotics end of February when we decided to go see her and his skin was visibly not doing good. And I knew, I prepared my husband, I was like, they're gonna go in and they're only gonna see his skin, but we need to advocate for him because we know there's deeper things going on. He was constipated, he had it pooped for two weeks and we didn't know what to do and we were like, have to go in. So we went in and right away she's like, you need to go on steroids.

I know, I know. But can you please do some further testing for him because he sleeps all day, his hands and feet are freezing, he would just randomly like shiver throughout the day. Like, and I didn't know if it was, you know, blood pressure, I didn't know if it's because he wasn't eating enough, I didn't know, you know, what to do. And ⁓ she's like, I'll test him, but you need to go get a dermatology appointment. And this was the first time I had ever heard the word abuse from a doctor. And she said, you don't get, because I tried to explain her my TSW and why I was kind of hesitant on the steroids and the dermatology and she said this is a form of abuse if you don't get him steroids and that's what she told me and that was the first time I was just like whoa like I just started immediately bawling because she totally you know wasn't listening to me.

Juniper (41:18)

⁓ my gosh, that makes me so sick.

Paige (41:20)

Yeah, and so they did do the testing and of course, thyroid was off. He had low iron, low vitamin D, low zinc levels and that was kind of the only testing that she had done. And he wasn't anemic, ⁓ but that low iron and that kind of stuff can make your hands and feet cold. So I immediately got a different pediatrician in a bigger town because this was just our small town pediatrician and I was like, nope, I'm not dealing with that. We're gonna go to a different pediatrician and get deeper testing. ⁓ So we went and did that and at this point my son was constantly itching. We had to sleep with him on us at night so we could feel when he would itch or else he would like rip his face apart and his arms and everything

He was in full body, like long sleeves, know, the footsie pajamas every day. And he was happy. He couldn't poop still. He was in so much discomfort. He just laid on me all day. He was so tired. And so it was, it was so devastating that like, again, pharmaceuticals got us to this point, like the antibiotics and you know, I was just like, and I told her that I was like, after this round of antibiotics, this happened. And she's like, it couldn't be that it's not that. And no one will listen, you know? And so we went to the PD, a new pediatrician. She was nice. ⁓ and she did further testing and she's, and she was like, I know this dermatologist. She's a friend of mine. It's with their same hospital. And she's like, she's so great. She has kids of her own. 

I would recommend her for my kids. I promise she'll listen to you. Please just go take your son there." And so we did. And ⁓ she was nice. We found out he had staph infection along with his eczema, which I didn't realize was such a huge component with eczema. ⁓ And the antibiotics were that lowered his immune system so much he couldn't fight off this staph infection. the dermatologist even said that. 

The type of ⁓ amoxicillin is a type of antibiotic that will make you more susceptible to staph infection. yeah. So we went to her, she said, you need to stop taking all this food away from him. This is when we weren't doing the dairy, the gluten. She's like, you need to stop doing that. You need to give him these things. She's like, you did blood testing. Yes, yes. And we did blood testing. 

Juniper (44:06)

Right, because you were following that from the number. Okay.

Paige (44:13)

for him for allergies and you know was coconut it was you know it was all these these things the normal things that kids you know the peanuts the dairy the gluten ⁓ yeah all that so she's like you need to stop doing that those are not accurate tests and of course no doctor wants to hear you're going to a naturopath they don't believe anything about that so we're like okay and obviously we still kept you know we knew they were inflammatory foods if anything that it wasn't gonna help him. And of course we're still giving him vegetables and fruits and meat and all that stuff that kids need. So we went to her, I told her my spiel, I cried in her room, she acted like she heard me. And TSW is a little more known in the dermatology realm, but they're still like, of course if you've been on steroids for 25 years or 23 years, this would happen of course that would happen. She's like, this is not going to be the case for your son. We're going to try two weeks of it. And I've never had a kid after two weeks not, or, you know, respond well and their eczema is always completely gone. And she's like, but if it didn't work, then we would do dupixant. And I was like, no, like I'm not putting my son on an injectable for a bare minimum six months. I'm not going to do that. And I kept kind of pushing back and I don't know if you've heard of protopic, protopics like tacrolytes. 

It's kind of like steroids. Steroids take out your whole cell of your skin and ⁓ suppress it basically and protopics take out only a little component. ⁓ It's still not a great, it's it's kind of like a half steroid. ⁓ And so we said yes to that even though I've seen women or I've seen stories of people having withdrawals from topics too. But we did spot treatments of that. We did the antibiotics for his staph infection, even though was like, antibiotics got us in this situation. How can that possibly be the solution? And she's like, this is a different type of antibiotic. It's not going to affect his, you know, his immune system and whatever. okay. And we did it. We did all these things. We did pretty much everything she asked except for she wanted to go on steroids and She kept calling and really was very involved in our lives as was my pediatrician who she was friends with. And it was just, I was like, maybe this is how bigger towns are. I was like, I don't know. They keep calling and asking for pictures. And so I was like, okay, like, so we kept going to all the appointments. She was so nice. She pulled the, I'm a mom, you know, I would do this. I know this has been traumatic for you. 

But you know, just kind of easing, she just kept trying to do the steroids and the steroids and the steroids. And meanwhile, we're doing all of these other ⁓ things underneath the skin that they don't know we're doing. All these natural type things and ⁓ all this testing that we're seeing and we're reaching out to naturopathic doctors like this is what his test results are. He has super low IgE like scary low so we can't fight anything off. So I'm like we can't do any more antibiotics because it's just wrecking his gut and he can't fight off any of the staph infection. He got two bacterial infections on top of that and it was just thing one thing after another that you know, this Western medicine is just stripping him of anything that could possibly help him fight off these things. ⁓ So that's kind of where we were at. My husband and I are just, obviously all of our family are just, they know what I had went through and they're trying to help us and no one's sleeping at night. And I mean, I'm up at all hours of the night researching till my eyes bleed of different possibilities. And I would really say the biggest component was the staph infection. Staph infection nowadays is so used to antibiotics that it doesn't hardly react to it. Unless you have a good immune system that can fight it off, it's really, really hard to get rid of these days ⁓ because they're so antibiotic resistant. So

Juniper (48:39)

live.

Paige (48:43)

Anyways, the dermatologist she's like, You have to go on steroids. And so this is kind of our last appointment with her. ⁓ She gets this long, long spiel about steroids and why she thinks it would be beneficial And meantime, he's on so much Miralax and Senna to get him to poop. We have helped him with his deficiencies in supplementing and he's finally has more energy. ⁓ His hands and feet aren't cold anymore. He's not sleeping all day. And it's really his staph infection that's feeding into the eczema that we were having problems with. And she said, if the inflammation isn't down, you're not going to get rid of staph infection. So they have nothing for staph infection besides antibiotics. And we left that appointment feeling completely defeated. We took the steroids. we never said we were going to do them, but we said we would take them from the, ⁓ my gosh, the pharmacy. Yeah. So we got them, we took them home with us and we really prayed about it. We were just like, okay, what are our options here? She's telling us he could get asthma if we don't, you know, control these symptoms, which asthma is big with, eczema.

Juniper (49:43)

the pharmacy.

Paige (50:03)

She's telling us he's gonna have long-term allergies if we keep not giving him gluten and dairy.

Juniper (50:09)

Okay, so they see the connection here between eczema and asthma and allergies, but not like the root.

Paige (50:18)

Right, right. What medication can we give you to suppress all these things? ⁓ That's pretty much, you know what they said. And so my husband and I went home. We didn't really, we didn't do it for about a week. And then we really prayed about it. was like, Jared, was like, I don't think we should do it. Like we're seeing little improvements and I don't want to get to the point where our next option is only do pixit from her.

Juniper (50:24)

great.

Paige (50:47)

Like I don't want to get to that point because her, her proto or you know, what she wanted us to do was two weeks of steroids, the lowest dose. And then after that, if it didn't work, do PICSIT. And I was like two weeks probably wouldn't give him TSW. But also I just, nothing's sitting right with me. They keep calling and you know, all this stuff. And I don't want to get to the point where our only option is do PICSIT. I think we need to get a second opinion from a different dermatologist.

And I was nervous to tell her this, like terrified. And meanwhile, I'm due in a week and a half with my next baby. And she wants me to keep coming. And it's a two hour drive for us to get to this, you know, to her office. And I'm just like, everything was just kind of weird. And I actually made a post in an eczema group. was like, how do I break up with my dermatologist? Cause I just had a weird feeling, you know?

And they're like, you have full medical freedom, it's your child. You can just say, say you're gonna get a second opinion. She can't do anything about that. Like, it's like, okay, so I felt better. And they called a couple days later, like, like they always do. They're like, how are the steroids going? And I said, I don't wanna, I was honest. I was like, I don't wanna get to a place where our next options do pig stint. And we decided we're going to get a second opinion with a different dermatologist. And this was her nurse, not the dermatologist we had been seeing. And she's like, so let me get this clear. You don't want to give him these two weeks of steroids because you don't want to do dupixent in case it doesn't work. And I said, yes. And she's like, okay. And she hung up. And I was like, okay. That's kind of the end of that, I guess. I kind of had a weight off my shoulders, but I was just still kind of like, you know, I don't know. And so this was a Thursday that this happened, that call. And they know I'm having a baby. When she called, she was like, my gosh, like you must not have had the baby yet. I'm like, no, I'm at a three dilated. I'm super excited though. Like think things are progressing better than they did with Jones. know, they're so nice and personable. They always tell me, your son's one of our VIP kiddos. Whenever you're in town, you can drop by and bring him by. Like you don't need an appointment. And I was like, okay, you know, like super nice.

So that next day, I have Jones, my son, that's his name, I don't know if I said that, but I'm rocking him and you know how hard it is to get an eczema baby to even sleep without scratching and whatever. And so I'm rocking him in the chair, finally got him to fall asleep and it's about, I think maybe one. And all of a sudden there's banging on my door and my husband had told me earlier someone was gonna drop a bowl off for us.

Juniper (53:22)

Okay.

Paige (53:38)

And so I called him, I'm like, hey, I just got Jones to sleep. Someone keeps knocking on our door. I think it's the guy to drop the bowl off. So he's like, okay, I'll come up to the house. And he comes up and he sees a cop car and a black SUV. And he just knew instantly what it was. And he's like, they're like, we are CPS. ⁓ And it was the sheriff deputy. and we're here to see a case regarding your son. And so he comes up to the house with them and he's like, let me go in first so I can talk to my wife. And the deputy knows us, we know him, it's a small town. And he's like, I'm sorry, like, he's like, you shouldn't, you know, he's like, this doesn't have to be a huge deal. 

He knew like my husband was nervous and he's like, it's not me you have to worry about, it's my wife. And so they come up to the house and ⁓ Jaren opens the door and Jones is sleeping on me and he's like, CPS is here. And I was just like, you're kidding. He's like, no, CPS is here. And my heart just drops and they walk in the door and my son is sleeping on me.

I just instantly just fall to the floor. Just bawling. ⁓ I didn't know what that meant. didn't know what was gonna happen. All I could think is they're gonna take my baby away from me for trying to do the right thing. And they have no idea what they're talking about. And I knew instantly it was the dermatologist that turned us in. And I was just so, everything, just, nothing was scarier. I think from, I was two days from my due date and it was just. 

So my son wakes up to me just bawling on the floor and my husband takes him outside and they come in and they're like, well we need to question you separately and I'm just like, what could this be about? Like what happened? Like I was like, trust me, you have no idea what you're talking about. Like he is so loved. And ⁓ so I was a mess. So they take Jared out first to question cop us inside with me. And, ⁓ you know, we don't make a lot of money. We're in a single wide trailer. And I could just think of all these things that they're seeing that they're, you know, maybe going to use this against us later. So I instantly I'm like washing the dishes in the sink, like picking up the diaper on the floor. Like, I'm just thinking I'm like, I'm not going to get dinged for having dishes in the sink or something stupid, you know. 

And so I'm cleaning the house, randomly just bawling and the policeman's like, okay, maybe you should say you're very pregnant. And I'm like, don't tell me what to do. And I'm like doing all these things. ⁓ I'm like, can I call my mom? And he's like, yeah, you know, do what you got to do. And ⁓ and so he's like, but don't maybe don't call all of Jaren's family because we're on a ranch with lots of uncles and his brothers and sisters and mom and dad and so everyone is right kind of there and I was like I'm not going to tell them but they're going to see a cop car you know and they're gonna they're gonna come over you know and so I called my mom and I'm bawling and I'm like mom they're gonna take my baby and ⁓ she's four hours away and she's like Paige just put him on the steroid. Like she had been through all this with me. She was had my back through everything. But I was like, I can't believe this is happening. She's like, just put him on the steroid. Just do it. Like, it's not worth it right now. Like you can't get him taken away from you. And so she's calling, you know, everyone like prayer groups and, you know, lawyers and trying to get things figured out and Then they take me outside to question me and I'm just completely distraught and I was like, this because of the steroids? Is this because we won't do steroids? And they're like, well, there's a few things and they can't of course tell me, you know, who turned us in, even though it's very obvious. they're like, well, how is this eating? I'm like, good. Like he's always been in like the 90th percentile for everything. He's a big boy.

I like, he eats more than I do like stay with us for an hour and you'll see how much he eats like I was like, why are you asking me how much he eats and They're like well, he got turned in for medical neglect or you guys got turned in for medical neglect and withholding food and ⁓ For malnutrition and I was like what like where where does that even come from and Yeah, I was like

Juniper (58:53)

because avoiding the foods that are inflammatory

Paige (58:56)

the dairy and the gluten. Yeah. Yeah. And through this whole process of him getting eczema, he had lost two pounds. He went from, I mean, he's barely one years old and he went from, I think, 24 to 22 pounds, but he had been pooping, you know, and he finally started pooping on all this Miralax. I'm like, well, yeah, I lost two pounds, you know. And so that's what they're telling me. And they're asking all these questions about how much he eats, what he eats, you know, and I'm trying to tell, and then they're asking about the steroids and all that, and I'm trying to explain them my situation, and I'm like, come look at our counter, it's a pharmacy in there, like our whole counter is full of supplements and everything, and like, yeah, we'll get there, you know, and so they come inside and they're like, well, we need to see where he sleeps, and you know, do all this, and we need to take pictures of him, and...

I'm like, I'll show you the before and afters. He looks better now, even though it's still, you know, all they see is the eczema. And they're like, oh, that's okay. We don't need to see those. And then at one point they were like, why is there a syringe on your couch? And I was like, what? And it was something to collect my colostrum for my next baby. And I'm like, it's not a syringe. I don't know if they thought we were meth heads or something

Yeah, I was like, and the the cop, he's like, Yep, my wife does that. And he's just trying to be super like on our side, I think. And I think he felt super bad that he was there. ⁓ anyways, so they're doing all this and taking pictures. And they're only taking pictures of stuff with like a pharmacy label on it. They're not taking pictures of any of our not, you know, all of our supplements and everything like that. And they're only taking pictures of that and of him and Then they sat us down and they're like, our options are you can stay here. We're gonna take Jones with us to an emergency room three hours away. And we need to see if he's basically gonna die or something. Like we need to see that he's not in any harm's way. And he can drive with us. We have a car seat. You can follow behind us in a car. And I was like, over my dead body, I will be coming with. They wouldn't have lasted three seconds in there because he doesn't, like car seats and when he's not with us, he cries and when he's in distress, he'll itch. And I was like, he wouldn't have lasted three seconds. ⁓ And so we got everything. We just grabbed a bunch of stuff, some food, one outfit, got in the vehicle with them and we're on our way, you know, to Rapid City, ⁓ three, three and a half hours away from us. And his mom is following us in a, in a... ⁓ vehicle behind us, my husband's mom, my mother-in-law. And everyone of course was at the house, they saw a cop car and were like, what is going on? And they're all trying to say, you know, help us. Like, they know what they're doing, like she went through it, you know, you know, and he's in a very good home life, like trying to help. And so at this point, it's by the time we got to the ER, it was five I think and it's a Friday night it's filled with people. ⁓

Juniper (1:02:25)

And you are due, like, the next day?

Paige (1:02:29)

Yeah, my due date was. I didn't end up having her until like six days later, but yeah. Yeah. And we're in the busiest ER, the busiest time of night, and my son hasn't gotten his supplements. He didn't get his regular bath time when he needs it, which is so important, as you know, for eggs and my kids. And we're sitting there and my mother-in-law comes in and she, you know, is...

She didn't get to talk to the CPS people before and she's like, where's your warrant? Where do you have the right to do this? And they were like, this is all voluntary. And I was like, what? You said it was either we got in with you or you were calling the courts that night and you were gonna take him away from us. Those were our options. We either drive with you three and a half hours or you call the courts and take him away.

I guess that is two options, I guess, but none of them are great. You know, I'm like, this is not voluntary. And we wait for two and a half hours. I'm calling so many people. ⁓ Someone got us in contact with Medical Freedom of South Dakota, and they get, you know, legislators to come to where you're at and help advocate. So we had a legislator come and yeah, it was crazy. And then CPS people were like, and they got a deputy to come just to help them out, we were at the emergency room and we're basically just waiting for a doctor to come and get us, but it was so busy. mean, people were coming in with dislocated shoulders and puking everywhere. And I'm like, these people actually need help, not us, you know. So basically they needed a doctor to say either he is, you know, in danger life-threatening danger and they were gonna take him or he was gonna say, no, he's not and he can go home with his parents and then you make a plan after that with CPS. And we waited for two and a half hours in the ER. He's tired, so hungry. All they had was, you know, stuff in the vending machine and they're like, well, maybe we should go get McDonald's. I'm like, he can't have McDonald's. Like you guys, like, I'm just like, nothing's clocking to them. Like nothing. Yeah, and I hadn't felt my baby kick since we had left from home. So I am like, if I lose this baby because of what we're going through, like, like, I physically couldn't live with myself. So we're in the hospital and I go up to labor and delivery so that they can monitor me. And it was about 20 minutes before we had got her to kick. ⁓ So then by the time we had come back down, 

My husband went back with my son and his mom was there, the cop was there, the two CPS people and my cousin that works at the hospital came to help us. She's a nurse and just to kind of help ask questions and advocate and whatnot. so we go into a psych ward room because that's all they had left and they wanted to take our phones away and I'm trying to record everything just in case legal purposes. had no idea. I'm just trying to think of everything I can do to help us. So we had to wait another hour to get to another room so they had an opening. They had seen my son while I was in labor and delivery. He just came in, took one look at him basically, didn't even take his clothes off or anything, asked my husband a few questions about how he was eating and stuff. Then he left the room. When he left the room, I had gotten back and he's sleeping on Jaren and that's all that had really happened up to that point and about, I don't know, maybe a half hour later the doctor came in after the CPS people were out there talking to him, which I thought was weird. I'm like, I feel like you're not allowed to like alter his, know, sway his opinion and I wasn't there for that because if I was there I would have been out there, you know, and so he comes in and he's like

Juniper (1:06:44)

Yeah

Paige (1:06:55)

I don't see that he's in any immediate harm or danger. He's clearly eats a lot. ⁓ I do recommend obviously that you follow a dermatologist recommendation, but I'm not a dermatologist. I'm an ER doctor. I'm not a pediatrician. ⁓ So he was like, I don't see any reason of... reasonable harm to him. so then my mother-in-law was like, so he doesn't have to go on the steroids. He's like, I'm not going to put them on steroids tonight if that's what you're asking. And so I don't think that's what the CPS people wanted to hear. And I was like, okay, at least he's kind of listening to us. And then we stay in that room and she's like, now we have to make a plan of what you have to do next. And she's, she's like, well, you mentioned that you wanted to get a second opinion. So I think you need to, I'm going to talk to my supervisor, we're not going to take him tonight, but you need to get a second opinion with the dermatologist and follow their recommendations for him. And I was like, okay. She's like, because he has infections and we don't want him to go septic and all this and yeah, I was like, if he want a fever.

Juniper (1:08:14)

Like you do.

Paige (1:08:18)

Yeah, I'm like, you think I want to be going through this? You think I want to be up all night with him? I was like, I want something different for my son. I was like, that's what I want. And that doctor that you are, doctor that came in, he kind of must, she must have told them about my TSW and stuff. And he's like, yeah, if you're on steroids for that long, that can happen. And I'm like, yeah, like, I know. And I've just, it was just the same thing as any dermatologist or doctor had ever talked to, including the CPS people. just not listening to me and only seeing his, you know, his skin.

Juniper (1:08:52)

so condescendingas if like at any point in those 23 years had somebody actually helped you you wouldn't have been on steroids for that long.

Paige (1:09:02)

Yeah, yeah. I know, I'm just like, it was baffling. was the most surreal day of my entire life. Like nothing prepares a mom for anything like that. As if you know my son better, as if you could have taken care of him better had you taken him away from me. Like, ⁓ my gosh, he's my baby as I just kept saying, like this is my child. It's not like we're doing nothing. can afford to spend an arm and a leg for all these supplements? We really can't but we're going to because we love him so much. I would do anything for him to not have to go through what I went through. I don't want him to miss sporting, to miss a sport when he's older. I don't want him to spend his first few months of marriage with me, living with me and not with his spouse. I don't want these things for him. I want something different for him. Anyways, yeah. that happened to us and we know it was the dermatologist.

Juniper (1:10:07)

So you had to go get another opinion.

Paige (1:10:10)

Yes. And we were able to do that before our daughter came. ⁓ And I'm texting everybody the next day, everyone I know in the eczema community, in the TSW community. I'm like, is there a dermatologist you know that will say, I don't think he needs to go on steroids? Because I was still like, they're going to put us on steroids, whatever dermatologists we find. So I'm messaging everybody, like online, people I know. nurses, doctors, that you know, through family that I might know. And then through this medical freedom of South Dakota, there was a man that recommended a local lady that would be really open to what we had to say. So that's who we went with. We went in, she was very nice and said he needed to go on steroids. And she's like, and I tried to tell her our story. I'm like, can you please just not recommend it? She's like, I'm not gonna lie about what my recommendation is. ⁓ She's like, but I'm not gonna make you do it. I can't say whether you enforce it or not. She's like, you definitely don't have to do it, but this is what I would recommend. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh. Like I was felt so defeated. At this point we had been to a GI specialist for his not being able to poop, a immunologist for his IgG levels and everything, his. both pediatricians and then two dermatologists and they wanted us to go to an allergist as well. And every single one of them had a different recommendation. The immunologist said, don't do steroids, but do Dupixent. The dermatologist said, do steroids. The GI doctor's giving us only Miralaxin Sena for him, nothing else with his bowels. ⁓ The allergist is saying, go on steroids and don't go on Dupixent because he's too young. you know, the pediatricians are saying, listen to the dermatologist. So I'm like, at some point I would have not listened to one of you and you could turn me in. Like, because I can't listen to all you at the same time. You're all saying different things. So, you know, I'm like, this is confusing for anybody going through this. Yeah. So that's her recommendation. have to tell the CPS people that we decided to go on the steroids because the of losing him was

Juniper (1:12:16)

Great.

Paige (1:12:37)

obviously worse than you know that. ⁓ We do that for two weeks and we plan it out so it's our last meeting with our CPS people so that while they're there they can see that he looks good so that we can close the case pretty much. ⁓ And we do the recommended everything and it honestly didn't really work that great. I thought it was gonna be like the steroids you know at least you'll look good for two weeks whatever and it really didn't work that as great as it worked for me even so. Yeah, so he was still pretty red, but he did look better. and so they closed the case, we got him off the steroids and that was all about the time that we started your cleanse. Your cleanse is actually recommended by that TSW mom and instantly we started at the day before my daughter was born and instantly he was pooping by himself without mere laksa or Senna and we were like, well, I didn't know that could happen. We thought we were doing it for just the eczema, you know? And I was like, well, even if it doesn't help his eczema, at least he's pooping now by himself without heavy doses of Miralaxin Sena. ⁓ So yeah, that ⁓ was a godsend for us, starting off with having a newborn and finally a kid that can poop at least. 

Juniper (1:13:52)

Yeah. Well, because there's a whole repercussion of just not pooping, like sleep, behavior, mood throughout the day. I mean...

Paige (1:14:08)

and the toxins your body holds in from not pooping. 

Juniper (1:14:12)

Yes, and for a young, I mean for anybody, for my dad, I mean he gets so angry. And every time I'm like, dad, have you pooped? Like what's wrong? And now he will call me and he'll be like.

Paige (1:14:19)

Yeah.

Juniper (1:14:28)

I haven't pooped in three days. need some cleanse. I need you to help me because, and he's just like on the edge and so grumpy about the world and for a small child.

Paige (1:14:34)

Yeah. Well, yeah, for him, his, and we tried telling every doctor this, I'm like, he doesn't itch unless he can't poop or fart. Like it was even hard for him to fart. And he would just scratch his tummy because it's his tummy hurt, obviously, from not being able to poop. And that is where his tummy got so bad is because he was just thrashing at his stomach. And then a couple minutes after thrashing, he would fart or something and then he would stop scratching. And I was like, how do I tell these doctors this? We need to look at his tummy problems. Like why is he not pooping? And after your cleanse and you finally started pooping on his own, the thrashing stopped. I'm like weird, weird how that works. Like, ⁓ my goodness.

Juniper (1:15:23)

before we started recording, was like, I'm curious how much, how far into this she is with her son, healing his gut. And what I saw, and maybe you have a different order connected to a different email or something, but have you just ordered one bottle of cleanse and one bottle of Nourish Probiotic, or have you gotten the Rebalance Kit?

Paige (1:15:47)

For Jones, my son, I did that. And then my husband, didn't work for my email for some reason for me to order the woman's whole shebang. We did that with the mint, whatever. And so my husband had to order it under his name. we have my... Yeah, so. 

Juniper (1:15:54)

No, that's not… Yeah. That's it. So you are, because you, okay, so I jumped forward a little bit, but you really quickly noticed a change in his poops. And then, and this, you started taking Clems, the day after you closed the case with CPS and the day before your doctor was born.

Paige (1:16:25)

Pretty much. Yeah about that. Yeah 

Juniper (1:16:30)

Wow. what has like I'm okay, so it immediately helped with his pooping, but then and which then helped with his scratching of his stomach. And then what is his? What does it look like since then?

Paige (1:16:47)

So I messaged you about his poop, so excited. And he had gotten a diaper rash, a pretty intense one, because I think he was getting so many toxins out right away when he started pooping finally. ⁓ And then I was like, it hasn't really helped his skin. We were on it for about a month. We're on like day like 65 now or something of the cleanse. But for that first month, it was really just the poop that we saw a difference in, not really his skin. And then...starting the next month of it, which is about right where we are now, like a couple weeks, probably three weeks ago, ⁓ his skin, mean, I sent you pictures, but he is a whole new kid. And this is the first time we've seen significant change in his skin, like truly sleeping through the night now and not waking up and scratching constantly or having to poop or fart and then waking up or you know and he I mean just yesterday for the first time he got to play in a little kid kiddie pool and just his diaper and not a whole you know long sleeves everything it's these things that you don't think about as a mom that like the average mom wouldn't think about but these are such big wins for us like

Juniper (1:17:59)

Yeah.

Paige (1:18:03)

him just being able to play in his diaper without scratching his everything off is the biggest win for us. So he's doing so good. mean, he's not 100%. He still has flares in his face. I mean, he can reach his face usually. So that's kind of the first thing that he'll scratch if he does scratch. ⁓ But he is a whole new kid. His light is back. Every day I just look at my husband and I'm like, I love him so much. He's so happy and...

Juniper (1:18:08)

Yeah.

Paige (1:18:31)

He goes out with my husband every day to help him ranch and go see the cows and the sheep and you know, he's not bothered by all the dust and whatever. I mean, he he's amazing. Like, yeah, I'm just like we were robbed of six months, but it's worth it if we can see a whole lifetime. I always say like, choose your hard with this. We could have chosen easy steroid, you know, not easy, but easy route of steroids right now to have a really hard time later or we could heal him now while he won't remember it later going through this really hard time hopefully and and have a lifetime of health you know like that is so important for us so yeah that's where we're at.

Juniper (1:19:14)

Well, I remember you sending a message to Slick saying, I've seen so much healing in him, I'm gonna do it for myself. And so you ordered the woman's kit for yourself. Did you get the ultimate or the original? I'm sorry.

Paige (1:19:26)

The ultimate. I'm going all in. I was like, I got two babies. I gotta figure this out. And we want lots of kids. So I'm like, I gotta figure this all out before the next kid. 

Juniper (1:19:32)

What? Well, amazing. And then for Jones or for yourself, did you get any of the topical products?

Paige (1:19:45)

No, I haven't yet. I haven't. We're kind of easing in.

Juniper (1:19:49)

I would like to gift you a body biome kit because it's going to amplify the skin part that you're experiencing and it helps so much with staff too. the relief, we're renaming it to magic stuff, but it's truly magic. And for Jones, because you had ordered cleanse and nourish on their own. And so with his, you didn't get like the rebalancing guidebook and the course that came with your kit. so ⁓ I just cannot wait to see what happens in his healing too. Now that you have that.

Paige (1:20:34)

Yeah.

Juniper (1:20:36)

guidebook, I definitely recommend and maybe you have done this from the beginning, but following the children's dosage protocol for him that's for the rebalance and not just like on the bottle of cleanse. And if, if you're open to it, I would also love to gift you a bottle of bind and remineralize for him because it will take his healing to the next level It's insane. the original kit that's just cleansed and nourished has been life-changing for so many people. And now Bind and Remineralize are fairly newer products and.. People are saying, you know, I've experienced so much healing. I thought that I was healed and then I started it. I kept going but added these and I'm this completely different person. And so it would be a beautiful time if those supplements resonate with you and you would like to give them to him.

Paige (1:21:30)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That is so sweet. Thank you for gifting us that. That means a lot. Yeah, I am down for anything for him. I mean, just those two did so much for him already. So yeah, I am open to doing anything for both of us.

Juniper (1:21:34)

You're welcome. Well, and it's incredible that he's able to go out in the summer months in the dust and the pollen his immune system is already stronger. And you're already, and a lot of times, I mean, as I'm sure that you of anybody in the world knows, a lot of times our skin is the last part to heal and you do such a beautiful job at Seeing and celebrating even the little wins that like you were saying to somebody else is just like ordinary daily life really holding on to those little those little wins because those all add up to a child who's absolutely thriving and

Paige (1:22:17)

Yeah.

Juniper (1:22:28) 
I'm just really grateful that he didn't experience TSW after those two weeks of steroids.

Paige (1:22:34)

Yep. Yeah. 

Juniper (1:22:36)

Because for anybody listening, like it's not unheard of for that to happen. In fact, it's actually quite common.

Paige (1:22:42)

Yeah, I seen so many, just being on this, you know, social media and stuff and being able to see these people's stories and like my dermatologist saying that doesn't happen to kids. It doesn't happen for that short amount of time to be on steroids. mean, it does. Like people are out there and they are also like screaming for help, like figure it out people, you know, and that like, I just kept telling my husband, I'm like, Jaren, if he had to go through what I went through emotionally for me, know, I couldn't, it was so hard to just, you know, get through it for him. Like he can't speak to us. He can't tell us what hurts, you know, and still that's really hard for us when his tummy hurts and whatever. And like, he can't tell us what hurts. He doesn't know why we're holding him down to not itch. Like, and we're trying to itch for him and he doesn't understand anything of these things and the milestones he could have missed. And I mean, we're already a little bit behind on milestones just from this experience. Like I couldn't imagine if he was bedridden and all the weak skin. Like we are so thankful that those two weeks, you know, really didn't do too much harm to him. Thank God. And to learn so much like power, like there's so much power and knowledge and like how everything kind of worked out your products coming in during the CPS time and we were just grasping at straws at this point, know, and for it to work, like something to finally click for us because my husband and I just kept saying like, we have spent thousands on stuff and we see little improvements and lot of internal improvements with his iron and his vitamin D, his zinc and you know, his mood and everything and sleep, but the eggs amount was just… horrendous and I think none of those things that we were doing those thousand dollars of supplements and protocols that we were doing We're gonna work until he got those bad things out of him Truly like not being able to poop like the help of your cleanse and everything like now those things can work

Juniper (1:24:52)

Exactly. Because when the gut is so unbalanced, like you can take all the greatest supplements in the world, but if your gut is really out of balance and inflamed, it's not able to absorb those nutrients. And so it's just stacking up and probably contributing to the constipation. And it's this really vicious cycle. so you using Cleanse and Nourish to heal his gut is helping all of that.

Paige (1:25:04)

Yes, yeah.

Juniper (1:25:20)

work and serve his body.

Paige (1:25:22)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Juniper (1:25:25)

Yeah. Paige, thank you for taking all this time and I wish that I could hug you. What you've gone through is unfathomable, but any one of us could be there. Because as moms and parents, our job is to advocate for our children.

Paige (1:25:32)

Yeah, I know.

Juniper (1:25:50)

And when we don't conform to the system, we're put in this really, really awful place of, I mean, it's absolutely unreal that anyone's time was wasted thinking that they needed to come and take your son when really it's the system that failed you. You are not failing your son. The system was failing your family. I think about the, I've actually had, it was an episode quite some time ago, ⁓ mama who went through this, they were medically kidnapped and forced to, like she was forced to stop breastfeeding and I'll link that episode in the show notes for anybody curious to listen to that story, but absolutely horrendous. And not to like instill fear, but to help empower you listening to know before you go and to know like It's really hard because we are all conditioned. we just, that's what you do when you're unwell. You go to the doctor, you go to the specialist. So if you have skin issues, you go to the dermatologist. But if those specialists and doctors aren't taught about the foundation of our body, they can't help us heal. And so it's our jobs as moms, we'll learn all that we can and And even then, you did. And we can still find ourselves in this situation, but you are on a beautiful journey outward from that. And before we go, I just have to ask, how is your daughter?

Paige (1:27:42)

She's good. Yeah, we are putting everything in place to hopefully avoid, you know, this. I am not gonna lie, I'm a little terrified of her getting sick and not being able to use antibiotics unless we absolutely need to. Just trying to learn how to still, like, get ahead of it in case she does get an ear infection, what to do, you know, just stuff like that. ⁓ But I'm very, you know, I'm breastfeeding and I'm taking your kit, so I'm like, okay, that'll help, and you know, all these things.

Juniper (1:28:10)

Yes. And you have the tools now. Cleanse for ear infection. Maybe you know this now, but maybe not. But you can put it in the ear and it kills any infection. So if you see your child tugging on their ear or anything where you're just like, ooh, you can use cleanse in the ear and it will kill the bacteria like that.

Paige (1:28:16)

You like them? and see you I had no idea. is so-

Juniper (1:28:31)

Use it if you get a stye in your eye or a pink eye, you can use it in your eye. ⁓ sore throat, you just gargle with it. So the way that cleanse work is it's killing bad bacteria, bad even some viruses. And so cleanse is my family's first line of defense. Like We have not had to go to the doctor. We were actually just laughing about this because my kids are all on the mountain bike team and my two oldest had to go get sports physicals. And we're sitting in the doctor's office for the sports physical and they're just like fascinated looking around at the things. I'm like, my gosh, they haven't been to the doctor. since my second, I mean, so it's been nine years since I've taken.

Paige (1:29:05)

Thank Yeah. My gosh

Juniper (1:29:17)

to use them, you become very independent and your daughter won't need antibiotics because you are so in tune with what's happening and you see what's happening before it gets to a point where it's really bad and.

Paige (1:29:21)

Yeah. Well, even

Juniper (1:29:35)

So on your bottle of cleanse, there's a little QR code you can scan with your phone and it will take you to a page that tells you so many different uses like mastitis, UTIs, all the things that you would need antibiotics for. Cleanse is incredible. Yeah, and she's going to receive the supplements through your milk. And so her...

Paige (1:29:52)

Wow, more than you know.

Juniper (1:30:01)

gut is like you're really preparing her for resilience.

Paige (1:30:05)

Yeah, and I'm so thankful I was able to do a beat back to like that little component. So we're very hopeful and I will say like, when women used to say like, I feel so empowered. was like, gosh, like what does that mean? And going through this journey with ⁓ my skin, with CPS, I'm just like, come at me with it. I'm prepared, we have our ducks in a row and I'm just.

Juniper (1:30:09)

Nice.

Paige (1:30:34)

I'm so thankful for this journey at the same time, even though it was very traumatic. Like, we can help other people, you know, I can spread the word and other mamas and ⁓ just knowing how secure I am in our family now and our family dynamic and not feeling like I'm obligated to use Western medicine. You know, I just, yeah, I am empowered truly and I know what that word means now.

Juniper (1:31:05)

Absolutely. Well, it is every single part of our journeys that we go through is exactly what it does. It empowers us and it invites us to learn more. And I don't know if you've worked through much of the course yet, but I'm in the process of revamping it and I can't wait because there's going to be like whole TSW sections and it's going to be.

Paige (1:31:29)

You're doing such good work. I don't know how you figured all this stuff out, but thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

Juniper (1:31:34)

I just want to think through it. It's from fighting for my son's life and learning everything that I had because I was going lose my son if I didn't and the system was not working with me.

Paige (1:31:44)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. my gosh.

Juniper (1:31:53)

So I found my empowerment the same way that you were just talking about.

Paige (1:31:59)

Yeah, moms, moms are amazing, I will say. The woman's intuition, ⁓ man, hasn't failed me yet,

Juniper (1:32:04)

I know. I know. Thank you, Paige.

Paige (1:32:09)

Yes, thank you so much, Juniper. I appreciate it.

Transformation and Q&A of the week:

Transformation: I want to share a message that captures what so many families hope for when they begin rebalancing.

This mama said: “30 days into our daughters cleanse and we can breathe again. Her skin is more clear than it was the day she was born. She is happy, no longer scratching all day and all night, and is sleeping the longest stretches she ever has. We are sooo grateful for the rebalance kits!!!’

First of all… this is what healing looks like.

When a child is scratching all day and all night, when their skin is inflamed and their sleep is disrupted - it’s not just a skin issue. It’s a gut issue. A nervous system issue. An immune system issue.

And this mama’s words, “we can breathe again”...  that is what this work is about. Not just symptom relief, but full-body, full-family healing.

This is what’s possible when we support and heal from the foundation of the body.

Question: How to treat GBS in pregnancy. Had it first pregnancy - want to avoid second time around!

1. GBS, or Group B Strep, is something so many women deal with in pregnancy, and yet it’s rarely talked about in a way that actually empowers us to do something about it. 

Here’s what you need to know… GBS is a type of bacteria that many people naturally carry in their gut or vaginal microbiome. It’s not always harmful on its own — the issue is when it overgrows.

And that overgrowth doesn’t start in the vagina. It starts in the gut.

When your gut microbiome is out of balance it gives GBS the opportunity flourish. That imbalance creates the perfect environment for it to grow beyond its natural state and become a concern during pregnancy.

So when a woman tests positive for GBS, it’s not just a local issue. It’s a symptom of a deeper internal imbalance.

And if that imbalance isn’t addressed - if we just treat the symptom or wait for it to go away - it often shows up again in future pregnancies, or it can contribute to other symptoms and challenges down the road.

This is one of many reasons why I absolutely recommend rebalancing with the Ultimate option of the Women’s Gut Rebalance Kit during the third trimester and into postpartum.

When your gut is balanced, it creates a ripple effect throughout your entire body - supporting your immune system, your vaginal microbiome, and even your baby’s developing gut and immune foundation.

I’ve seen so many women retest negative for GBS after rebalancing. Which is a big deal because otherwise, you’re given antibiotics during birth, which only deepens the imbalance you already have. It also significantly increases your risk of postpartum depression and compromises your baby’s fragile microbiome, which is essential for their immune development.

So yes, rebalancing is one of the most powerful things you can do to support your body through GBS.

And one more thing to know - applying Relieve (soon to be renamed Magic Stuff) to your vagina after you pee can really help eliminate GBS locally while the rebalancing work clears it from the inside out.